Welcome to the Beyond Your Research Degree podcast from the University of Exeter Doctoral College! The podcast about careers and all the opportunities available to you... beyond your research degree!  In this episode Kelly Preece, Researcher Development Manager talks Alexandra Smith, who is finishing up her PhD and has just started a job as Public Health Research Support Officer at Devon County Council.

Music from https://filmmusic.io ’Cheery Monday’ by Kevin MacLeod (https://incompetech.com) License: CC BY (https://creativecommons.org/licenses

Podcast transcript

1 00:00:10,840 --> 00:00:15,700 Hello and welcome to the Beyond Your Research Degree podcast by the University of Exeter, Doctoral College

2 00:00:15,700 --> 00:00:27,660 Hello and welcome to the latest episode of Beyond Your Research Degree.

3 00:00:27,660 --> 00:00:36,820 I'm your host, Kelly Preece, and in this episode, we are continuing our series on securing jobs during covid-19.

4 00:00:36,820 --> 00:00:44,460 I'm speaking to another of our current PGRs who's not quite finished writing up, but has started a job in a local authority.

5 00:00:44,460 --> 00:00:54,810 So, Alexandra, you happy to introduce yourself? So my name is Alexandra Smith and I'm a student at the University of Exeter.

6 00:00:54,810 --> 00:01:00,720 I based in business school, but my PhD is on what I call the holistic health benefits of working groups.

7 00:01:00,720 --> 00:01:05,820 So essentially I'm looking at five different variables organisational landscape, physical health,

8 00:01:05,820 --> 00:01:14,430 mental health and social capital and their influence on working group participant motivation for joining, remaining and leaving.

9 00:01:14,430 --> 00:01:18,210 So at the moment, I am working with Devon County Council.

10 00:01:18,210 --> 00:01:23,790 I'm a public health research support officer and it's a role funded by the NIHR.

11 00:01:23,790 --> 00:01:31,320 That's the National Institute of Health Research, and it sits within the the CRN the Clinical Research Network.

12 00:01:31,320 --> 00:01:37,560 So essentially, NIHR is really interested in expanding its public health portfolio.

13 00:01:37,560 --> 00:01:45,990 So my role is to sort of link up researchers to populations to to get data from so I can

14 00:01:45,990 --> 00:01:50,880 do that through Connections that I have through the team within Devon County Council,

15 00:01:50,880 --> 00:01:58,440 but also to to create spaces for collaboration for public health.

16 00:01:58,440 --> 00:02:09,780 So I work across lots of different teams, so I will work with different individuals in D.C.C public health, but also broader DCC.

17 00:02:09,780 --> 00:02:15,060 So I'm also linking up with people in sort of who work more in the environment who are

18 00:02:15,060 --> 00:02:22,140 interested in working in transport and also working with sort of more partners as well.

19 00:02:22,140 --> 00:02:31,500 So community and voluntary sector NHS CCG Trust those different kind of partnerships, academics as well.

20 00:02:31,500 --> 00:02:39,180 And at the moment I'm working towards creating a webinar which DCC will be hosting on the 8th of July,

21 00:02:39,180 --> 00:02:46,650 and that's really a great collaborative forum to get academics and other partners together,

22 00:02:46,650 --> 00:02:54,660 to really talk through some of the pressing public health issues that we have in public health is such a huge area,

23 00:02:54,660 --> 00:02:58,770 really covers all aspects of life, really.

24 00:02:58,770 --> 00:03:03,150 It's very interconnected. So it's really important to have those collaborative spaces.

25 00:03:03,150 --> 00:03:08,100 And currently what I'm designing is a kind of like a platform.

26 00:03:08,100 --> 00:03:17,220 I'm looking to do this through sort of SharePoint and also through Microsoft teams to enable

27 00:03:17,220 --> 00:03:25,560 researchers and other collaborators to get together to put together grant applications.

28 00:03:25,560 --> 00:03:35,250 The role that I have public health research support of is a new role. And there are about 20 of me across the UK with this title.

29 00:03:35,250 --> 00:03:41,430 And next week I have my first meeting to meet the rest of the team on that.

30 00:03:41,430 --> 00:03:45,930 So I am new to a local authority.

31 00:03:45,930 --> 00:03:52,560 I'm new to public health, I'm new to NIHR, are very much started off like I did.

32 00:03:52,560 --> 00:03:57,600 I did a bachelor's in human psychology. I did a Masters in psychological well-being and mental health.

33 00:03:57,600 --> 00:04:03,270 And I worked as a research assistant to the University of Nottingham in the nursing, midwifery and physiotherapy department.

34 00:04:03,270 --> 00:04:08,820 And from there, I kind of thought clinical perhaps isn't quite for me, but I've got more.

35 00:04:08,820 --> 00:04:13,050 I really wanted more of a holistic perspective to individuals.

36 00:04:13,050 --> 00:04:22,080 So that's when I moved to Exeter to do my PhD. And then it just started shaping more into a kind of public health policy,

37 00:04:22,080 --> 00:04:29,940 kind of feel to it  then my supervisor suggested actually public health and maybe a local authority might work for you.

38 00:04:29,940 --> 00:04:36,690 And this really this is a fantastic opportunity because it kind of brings those two things together.

39 00:04:36,690 --> 00:04:41,640 It brings up public health interests and it brings that research element as well.

40 00:04:41,640 --> 00:04:48,600 So what I've been doing is engaging with different people. So I've been having one to ones with different members of the D.C.C public health

41 00:04:48,600 --> 00:04:54,900 team to understand their research about their area that they're working on.

42 00:04:54,900 --> 00:04:57,690 And these could be really broad themes, you know,

43 00:04:57,690 --> 00:05:04,200 that there could be children and young persons or it could be mental health or it could be planetary health.

44 00:05:04,200 --> 00:05:05,910 And they've been working on this for years.

45 00:05:05,910 --> 00:05:14,430 And I have to understand what it is that they're doing and what specific research element could be within that.

46 00:05:14,430 --> 00:05:21,270 So it's been a big learning curve if you don't if you don't know anything about that particular field to begin with.

47 00:05:21,270 --> 00:05:23,370 So it's very much you've gotta swap your

48 00:05:23,370 --> 00:05:31,110 head from learning about one topic and then something, you have to give somebody else an entirely different project and an entirely different topic,

49 00:05:31,110 --> 00:05:38,070 and it's just understanding those kind of connections that you can make to have like a broad you know,

50 00:05:38,070 --> 00:05:43,590 we need something researched into this or we need this really specific kind of population.

51 00:05:43,590 --> 00:05:49,080 So it's it's been a steep learning curve. I wouldn't have it any other way.

52 00:05:49,080 --> 00:05:52,140 Yeah. And I think that's a really important thing.

53 00:05:52,140 --> 00:06:00,990 to acknowledge that quite often when you're moving from research into any other sector, but particularly kind of,

54 00:06:00,990 --> 00:06:07,290 you know, the public policy kind of area that you're working in, it's going to be a steep learning curve.

55 00:06:07,290 --> 00:06:14,220 But that doesn't mean that you don't have valuable knowledge and skills and expertise to apply in those areas.

56 00:06:14,220 --> 00:06:14,820 Exactly.

57 00:06:14,820 --> 00:06:25,390 And it is really just about, you know, that that frame of mind when you start applying for jobs that are outside of academia because I don't know,

58 00:06:25,390 --> 00:06:32,130 certainly certainly I found that I perhaps didn't want to work in academia, although I did really still like research.

59 00:06:32,130 --> 00:06:34,560 But I wanted to get more into public health and understand that.

60 00:06:34,560 --> 00:06:41,730 But I don't have a public health master's, and that's just not something that I could go straight into, you know, to get a job.

61 00:06:41,730 --> 00:06:46,950 And I need to get some money. I can't just go study again.

62 00:06:46,950 --> 00:06:52,110 And it is really just about I found LinkedIn incredibly helpful for that process, actually,

63 00:06:52,110 --> 00:06:58,230 because you can follow different organisations and you can follow different people who are interesting to you.

64 00:06:58,230 --> 00:07:03,720 Interesting to you. And you can learn about opportunities that you never would have thought about.

65 00:07:03,720 --> 00:07:09,420 And that there is a learning to and where you have to understand and unpick some of that language.

66 00:07:09,420 --> 00:07:13,810 But some of it is just about immersing yourself in it.

67 00:07:13,810 --> 00:07:20,310 And for me, It's just constant exposure. The more exposure you get to it, over time, you pick it up.

68 00:07:20,310 --> 00:07:27,840 And I found that incredibly invaluable because then I broke out of my understanding the language

69 00:07:27,840 --> 00:07:33,540 of academia and the language of other organisations and therefore what they were looking for.

70 00:07:33,540 --> 00:07:42,690 And that actually I had those skills. I just needed to understand it in different words and they needed to sell it in different words.

71 00:07:42,690 --> 00:07:48,150 So I would say LinkedIn was actually invaluable for that it really was

72 00:07:48,150 --> 00:07:52,470 And then, you know, it's just about going through those applications.

73 00:07:52,470 --> 00:08:03,900 Give yourself enough time for it. So I suppose I take like I took two different strategies to it, like applying for loads of jobs,

74 00:08:03,900 --> 00:08:08,430 but also like I really want this one, or I think I could really get that one.

75 00:08:08,430 --> 00:08:14,970 And I would probably say if you have the time, try and do it more focussed.

76 00:08:14,970 --> 00:08:18,960 But also it can be really interesting to just apply more generally.

77 00:08:18,960 --> 00:08:32,490 So I, I got an interview that was more about, you know, turning academic projects into, like the business ventures.

78 00:08:32,490 --> 00:08:35,160 I don't know if that's the direction that I want to go into.

79 00:08:35,160 --> 00:08:42,060 And it was really helpful to have that interview to understand maybe this wasn't something I wanted to pursue now,

80 00:08:42,060 --> 00:08:50,430 but I never would have got that experience had I not applied for something totally different.

81 00:08:50,430 --> 00:08:57,390 So it can be a really useful learning strategy to to apply for a variety of different things that perhaps in the

82 00:08:57,390 --> 00:09:06,960 first instance and I suppose something that I would say is you can be a bit overwhelmed with interviews suddenly,

83 00:09:06,960 --> 00:09:14,570 like I would have, like, I don't know, like for interviews.

84 00:09:14,570 --> 00:09:25,670 Four days in a row, that's exactly how it could happen, and you've got to do a presentation for it and you might have to do like a group work for it.

85 00:09:25,670 --> 00:09:29,660 So there is there is a big time commitment to it.

86 00:09:29,660 --> 00:09:36,350 Don't underestimate that because there's a lot of work you need to put in, particularly for my current job.

87 00:09:36,350 --> 00:09:38,270 Fortunately for my other interviews,

88 00:09:38,270 --> 00:09:45,560 I'd also I'd already been looking into public health things and obviously public health stuff has been going on for years.

89 00:09:45,560 --> 00:09:52,730 Public Health England has been around for a while now. So there's lots and lots of information and there's lots of changes.

90 00:09:52,730 --> 00:09:59,960 The language is very involved. So it does take time if you're moving into a new area.

91 00:09:59,960 --> 00:10:06,260 But it's just the fact that exposure, that commitment, trying different things.

92 00:10:06,260 --> 00:10:13,550 And yeah, it just got to the point where I know I knew enough and I knew how to kind of frame myself.

93 00:10:13,550 --> 00:10:19,520 I knew what my I knew the things that I was particularly strong in.

94 00:10:19,520 --> 00:10:26,310 And I would say I don't want to say like it's unique selling point, but.

95 00:10:26,310 --> 00:10:33,300 What is it that you have to offer and what is it that they have to offer?

96 00:10:33,300 --> 00:10:39,840 Like yeah ok, you need a job, but it's probably going to be way worse if you just have a job that you hate.

97 00:10:39,840 --> 00:10:45,750 It's much better to have a job where you're much more aligned with the values.

98 00:10:45,750 --> 00:10:49,140 So I would say I think it probably depends on you as an individual,

99 00:10:49,140 --> 00:10:54,240 but personally being involved in how it's like my values are really important to me.

100 00:10:54,240 --> 00:10:57,870 So my organisation, the organisation that I want to work with,

101 00:10:57,870 --> 00:11:04,110 I need to make sure that my values are aligned with those, because if it doesn't, then it's just not sustainable.

102 00:11:04,110 --> 00:11:11,250 I'm not going to do a good job. I'm going to get fired. Then I'm not going to get like a very good, you know, like a reference, that kind of thing.

103 00:11:11,250 --> 00:11:16,750 Is it really worth it? I think it's worth just thinking about what do you want?

104 00:11:16,750 --> 00:11:22,890 What do they have to offer? You know, it's very true that people say, you know, it's not just that you are being interviewed.

105 00:11:22,890 --> 00:11:29,010 You're also interviewing them. You know, do you just feel like maybe this is a bit of a toxic environment going on?

106 00:11:29,010 --> 00:11:32,880 Or do you feel like this this team really works as a team,

107 00:11:32,880 --> 00:11:41,250 that they really have this this combined overall sense of leadership in this respect for one another.

108 00:11:41,250 --> 00:11:45,060 And that's really what I found at DCC I couldn't be more happy.

109 00:11:45,060 --> 00:11:49,470 I really couldn't. I feel so much part of the team.

110 00:11:49,470 --> 00:11:58,730 And I love this this mutual respect that everybody has for everybody, you know, from the top down, everybody.

111 00:11:58,730 --> 00:12:09,950 feels you know, everybody has that combined sense of of feeling valued and heard, and I think that I really appreciate that personally.

112 00:12:09,950 --> 00:12:18,170 And something really important I want to pick up on there is that a lot of people are using things like LinkedIn as a kind of an awareness

113 00:12:18,170 --> 00:12:28,490 raising to see what's out there and what's possible and where your skills and experience could be highly valued or sought after.

114 00:12:28,490 --> 00:12:33,920 Don't don't underestimate your value as a researcher.

115 00:12:33,920 --> 00:12:38,090 You're trained to be creative in your thought.

116 00:12:38,090 --> 00:12:44,990 You're trained to look out for those little nuances and question everything.

117 00:12:44,990 --> 00:12:49,220 And I think that that's something that I found really interesting working at DCC

118 00:12:49,220 --> 00:12:55,010 because people are obviously trying to understand what is best practise,

119 00:12:55,010 --> 00:13:01,760 what is the literature so that we can understand how we can support our populations the best.

120 00:13:01,760 --> 00:13:05,900 But there's also this kind of practicality of like we need to do something now.

121 00:13:05,900 --> 00:13:13,970 And research works at a completely different time to local authorities who need to be helping the populations

122 00:13:13,970 --> 00:13:18,830 now that they don't need to know the findings of a randomised control trial 10 years in the future.

123 00:13:18,830 --> 00:13:26,810 So it's really trying to sort of bring those two things together. And that's that's something where I sort of really come in to help them with.

124 00:13:26,810 --> 00:13:30,080 And I suppose the thing about, you know,

125 00:13:30,080 --> 00:13:33,920 a local authorities that they're trying to they've got to sort of split their population

126 00:13:33,920 --> 00:13:38,510 up to understand how we can how can we support this population or that population,

127 00:13:38,510 --> 00:13:42,380 this geographical area or children and young persons or whatever.

128 00:13:42,380 --> 00:13:48,380 And research takes quite a can take quite a different approach. We will go.

129 00:13:48,380 --> 00:13:55,490 Don't make any assumptions and you know, where where are things that we can connect,

130 00:13:55,490 --> 00:13:58,640 where are the similarities, where are the differences I have a background in psychology

131 00:13:58,640 --> 00:14:06,830 So I'm sort of trying to understand more about how we can incorporate individual differences more into research.

132 00:14:06,830 --> 00:14:11,390 You know, it's this kind of within and between group differences.

133 00:14:11,390 --> 00:14:16,490 So this is kind of like this two is two different needs going on,

134 00:14:16,490 --> 00:14:24,620 and it's about understanding how we can pick those apart and come up with a strategy going forward.

135 00:14:24,620 --> 00:14:32,360 Can you talk a little bit about the process of finding this, the job that you're in at DCC and this opportunity?

136 00:14:32,360 --> 00:14:44,360 The job that I actually got now, I got off the back of an interview, so I'd applied for like like an intelligence analyst job DCC.

137 00:14:44,360 --> 00:14:48,980 So I'm I'm based in intelligence as well. That's just where I sit in the team.

138 00:14:48,980 --> 00:14:55,940 But I actually straddle so many different, like pretty much everything in public health.

139 00:14:55,940 --> 00:15:03,770 because research is so broad and public health is so interconnected.

140 00:15:03,770 --> 00:15:12,380 So that's what I applied for. And the because obviously I got that analysis background.

141 00:15:12,380 --> 00:15:18,530 I've got mixed methods, background so quant and qual and I didn't get it.

142 00:15:18,530 --> 00:15:25,010 And the feedback that I got was great is just that you didn't quite tick some of the public health boxes.

143 00:15:25,010 --> 00:15:36,500 So get more familiar with with public health language and, you know, the JSNA the joint strategic needs assessment, those kind of things.

144 00:15:36,500 --> 00:15:44,990 And then, yeah, then I got sent through the like the the job advert.

145 00:15:44,990 --> 00:15:49,300 I applied for it, I.

146 00:15:49,300 --> 00:15:56,890 Then had the interview and managed to secure the job and, you know, and you're always going to get feedback and feedback is incredibly valuable.

147 00:15:56,890 --> 00:16:06,040 This isn't something to shy away from embracing. It is really important and valuable things in there about values.

148 00:16:06,040 --> 00:16:09,220 And, you know, like you said earlier, about buzz words.

149 00:16:09,220 --> 00:16:18,100 And there are certain things that when we talk about careers, are buzzwords and and feel like like platitudes and like kind of management speak.

150 00:16:18,100 --> 00:16:24,310 And one of those is kind of the importance of knowing your values to finding the right career path for you.

151 00:16:24,310 --> 00:16:30,430 But actually in practise, it is it's cliche and it's it yeah.

152 00:16:30,430 --> 00:16:35,320 It feels like kind of business speak, but it is actually true. Yeah, exactly.

153 00:16:35,320 --> 00:16:41,290 And I suppose, you know, I fought it in the past and just gone like, oh, no business speak buzz words

154 00:16:41,290 --> 00:16:45,850 Same, oh, it just turns me off completely.

155 00:16:45,850 --> 00:16:49,270 It makes me feel like it totally goes against my values.

156 00:16:49,270 --> 00:16:58,090 But I look at I suppose I look at it more as a language tool that I use to communicate a concept to other people.

157 00:16:58,090 --> 00:17:06,550 And that message and that communication is more important than perhaps preconceptions I have about it.

158 00:17:06,550 --> 00:17:12,940 Yeah, absolutely. And then the other one, I think really comes up in what you're saying is also the hidden job market,

159 00:17:12,940 --> 00:17:18,790 which is another one of those kind of management speak things, Business speak things that you hear and you shudder.

160 00:17:18,790 --> 00:17:22,510 But it is so true in practise. Yeah, I know.

161 00:17:22,510 --> 00:17:30,700 I suppose what I would say about this is that it's it's totally different to what I thought that it was like.

162 00:17:30,700 --> 00:17:35,590 It's you know, it's not sort of like I mean, I don't know how it works.

163 00:17:35,590 --> 00:17:41,080 And other things like DCC has a structure and lots of other places do where, you know,

164 00:17:41,080 --> 00:17:49,330 you have like tick boxes and you score a value based on like, you know, they're looking for a topic or a theme or something.

165 00:17:49,330 --> 00:17:58,420 And they will judge your answer, you know, I mean, this is how I understand it to be, you know, give you a score on your answer for that topic.

166 00:17:58,420 --> 00:18:06,970 You know, that particular thing that they're asking you about during the interview. And whoever gets the most points gets the job.

167 00:18:06,970 --> 00:18:13,990 So, you know, it was totally different from what I understood to be that kind of hidden job market,

168 00:18:13,990 --> 00:18:19,400 because I suppose the hidden job market, I assumed it was sort of like, oh, here's this job and you should just go for it.

169 00:18:19,400 --> 00:18:23,830 And I would, you know, you. But it doesn't it doesn't work like that.

170 00:18:23,830 --> 00:18:28,190 Every job's going to be advertised. You know, legally, this has got to happen.

171 00:18:28,190 --> 00:18:31,960 And in terms of fairness.

172 00:18:31,960 --> 00:18:41,650 But if if somebody sees something in you and goes, actually, I think that this could be really useful to you, then you will know about it.

173 00:18:41,650 --> 00:18:45,640 You'll know about it in advance. And you might not you know you know, you might know about it a couple of days.

174 00:18:45,640 --> 00:18:51,970 You might know about it a week or something. And that can give you a bit of lead time to think about, is this what I want to give that person?

175 00:18:51,970 --> 00:19:00,110 Thanks. Do some research into it. So, yeah, it's completely different to what I thought I was that it was some sneaky thing.

176 00:19:00,110 --> 00:19:06,610 It's not. It's not. It's more about somebody seeing something in you and going, actually, this might interest you.

177 00:19:06,610 --> 00:19:15,190 I suppose, to begin with, I found this idea of networking quite scary and I felt quite awkward with it.

178 00:19:15,190 --> 00:19:18,430 But actually, if I just bring it back to what my values were,

179 00:19:18,430 --> 00:19:30,590 my values are helping people and helping the broader theme of of helping people generally with, you know, with physical activity or whatever.

180 00:19:30,590 --> 00:19:35,140 And so in that respect, that's why it immediately struck me.

181 00:19:35,140 --> 00:19:44,470 Oh I'll send this person, you know, that paper or that link to that grant funding because I'm helping somebody.

182 00:19:44,470 --> 00:19:49,450 Exactly. And I think, again, you know, you hear networking and again, you think management people and speak.

183 00:19:49,450 --> 00:19:53,560 But actually, you know, it doesn't let you say about the hidden job market.

184 00:19:53,560 --> 00:19:58,720 It's not necessarily your perception of it as a term. It's not necessarily how it works in practise.

185 00:19:58,720 --> 00:20:06,100 I think we've we've uncovered so much in this about kind of like actually the importance of your values to driving you and thinking

186 00:20:06,100 --> 00:20:13,600 about how you investigate and look at different jobs and be a bit more targeted than just using those kind of a big job site,

187 00:20:13,600 --> 00:20:16,600 then the kind of hidden job market actually in applying for jobs.

188 00:20:16,600 --> 00:20:23,110 It creates new opportunities for you because you might not be right for the particular position that you've applied for,

189 00:20:23,110 --> 00:20:26,050 but there might be something else coming up that they go, oh, actually,

190 00:20:26,050 --> 00:20:33,040 we spoke to Alexandra and although she wasn't right for that job, she'd be perfect for this job.

191 00:20:33,040 --> 00:20:37,060 And also the kind of, you know, networking doesn't have to be clinical. It's about, you know,

192 00:20:37,060 --> 00:20:48,800 being collegiate and having conversations with people and kind of helping basically some advice that I got about networking was about.

193 00:20:48,800 --> 00:20:51,530 Sort of keeping a contact and that sort of stuff.

194 00:20:51,530 --> 00:21:00,320 I mean, there was just too much to do in a day, you know, and I don't know that all of that would be completely genuine if you had to.

195 00:21:00,320 --> 00:21:09,650 I mean, nobody can do that. That's just too much. If something just happens to crop up and it seems relevant to that person, then I'd send it.

196 00:21:09,650 --> 00:21:14,720 If it's kind of general like chit chat, I just don't know that's that valuable to anybody.

197 00:21:14,720 --> 00:21:18,380 But it depends on who you are, depends on who the other person is,

198 00:21:18,380 --> 00:21:26,060 depends on and sort of what stage they're at before we kind of bring and bring this to a close.

199 00:21:26,060 --> 00:21:34,580 I wondered if we could talk a little bit about what you think. So one of the anxieties people, a research degree students have tends to be about.

200 00:21:34,580 --> 00:21:46,770 But what skills do I have that are relevant to, you know, relevant to industry or relevant to public policy or the public sector and.

201 00:21:46,770 --> 00:21:56,700 The answer is so, so many. I wondered if you could talk about your specific role and what are the what's the knowledge,

202 00:21:56,700 --> 00:22:06,430 what the skills that you use from your day most in your in your work life?

203 00:22:06,430 --> 00:22:25,880 I think perhaps the reason why PhD students struggle with understanding the values that they have and the how do you say those broader skill sets

204 00:22:25,880 --> 00:22:29,120 It's because you're doing a PhD

205 00:22:29,120 --> 00:22:39,320 these things are very the environment is is completely different to other environments and it's kind of like very much your project.

206 00:22:39,320 --> 00:22:42,740 And it can get quite intense and quite lonely sometimes.

207 00:22:42,740 --> 00:22:51,140 Even if you are attending a seminar or you're collaborating with somebody else, it's still your project at the end of the day.

208 00:22:51,140 --> 00:22:55,530 And I think when you're that close to something over time.

209 00:22:55,530 --> 00:23:07,980 It can start to just feel like everything it can just feel like it's the entire world and you don't know where you finish and the PhD begins.

210 00:23:07,980 --> 00:23:13,890 And I kind of feel like I mean, I don't know it might happen to other people it certainly happened to me.

211 00:23:13,890 --> 00:23:22,410 And it's it's there that those kind of that value or those, you know, those flexible skills,

212 00:23:22,410 --> 00:23:27,240 I think get lost because you don't understand how to advertise it because it's just one.

213 00:23:27,240 --> 00:23:36,060 You know what I mean, you are the PhD are just one. And I think probably the the biggest thing.

214 00:23:36,060 --> 00:23:44,850 for me that I use every day is collaboration, I mean, my PhD was very much just,

215 00:23:44,850 --> 00:23:50,040 you know, me sat at my desk, you know, and occasionally I would attend seminars.

216 00:23:50,040 --> 00:23:55,620 But they were I mean, there's really not very many people studying the area that I do this,

217 00:23:55,620 --> 00:24:01,620 like one main person that I know in the world who's studying it.

218 00:24:01,620 --> 00:24:12,060 So, you know, it can feel very lonely. But I've had different opportunities for collaboration and I've worked on different projects,

219 00:24:12,060 --> 00:24:14,460 different things that have come up within the university.

220 00:24:14,460 --> 00:24:22,320 I kind of grasp those opportunities and made the full use out of them as much as you can so that you can demonstrate that you have those skills.

221 00:24:22,320 --> 00:24:26,880 And don't forget, it's not just about putting it on the paper.

222 00:24:26,880 --> 00:24:33,650 You know, in your cover letter or in your CV is then demonstrating that you have that at the interview.

223 00:24:33,650 --> 00:24:37,410 You know, if you want to if you're trying to say, I have great listening skills,

224 00:24:37,410 --> 00:24:41,910 then listen, I really make sure that you're having those active listening skills.

225 00:24:41,910 --> 00:24:49,200 You're really listening to what those questions are. You're picking them apart and then you're answering those questions specifically.

226 00:24:49,200 --> 00:24:54,390 So I would say my interpersonal skills are the biggest thing that I use.

227 00:24:54,390 --> 00:24:58,070 And so I definitely would say.

228 00:24:58,070 --> 00:25:09,800 It can be it's the same with like talking to other people and using people as sounding boards, they can help you pick apart what your skills are.

229 00:25:09,800 --> 00:25:14,180 I mean, yes, there were those kind of hard skills that you have. I've learnt this bit of software.

230 00:25:14,180 --> 00:25:18,980 I taught myself that if you've taught yourself something, say it.

231 00:25:18,980 --> 00:25:26,090 That's really important because it shows that you're able to to learn and to adapt and to

232 00:25:26,090 --> 00:25:33,800 identify a need and fulfil it to be that reflective like to have that self reflection and to go,

233 00:25:33,800 --> 00:25:40,940 OK, this is like a gap or like, OK, I'm going to call it a gap rather than a weakness.

234 00:25:40,940 --> 00:25:47,060 And to be able to sort of fill that. I mean, you're trained so highly in teaching yourself.

235 00:25:47,060 --> 00:25:53,870 That's really what a PhD is it's teaching yourself to teach yourself and teaching yourself to learn.

236 00:25:53,870 --> 00:25:59,330 So that's kind of the biggest thing. And that can really take you places.

237 00:25:59,330 --> 00:26:04,610 Thank you so much to Alexandra for a really fascinating and deep,

238 00:26:04,610 --> 00:26:10,670 and involved discussion about how she came to her role working in public health

239 00:26:10,670 --> 00:26:16,730 and the kind of career journey that she's been on the application process.

240 00:26:16,730 --> 00:26:24,410 And you know what she's doing now and she's how she's applying her experience from her PhD.

241 00:26:24,410 --> 00:26:40,261 And that's it for this episode. Join us next time when we'll be talking to another researcher about their career beyond their research degree.