Welcome to the Beyond Your Research Degree podcast from the University of Exeter Doctoral College! The podcast about non-academic careers and all the opportunities available to you... beyond your research degree!  In this episode Kelly Preece, Researcher Development Manager talks to Timur Jack-Kadıoğlu, who secured a job as Technical Officer - Conservation, Livelihoods & Governance at Fauna & Flora International during COVID-19. Timur had started his role at Fauna & Flora International whilst finishing writing up his PhD.

Music from https://filmmusic.io ’Cheery Monday’ by Kevin MacLeod (https://incompetech.com) License: CC BY (https://creativecommons.org/licenses

Podcast transcript

1 00:00:10,890 --> 00:00:23,550 Hello and welcome to the Beyond Your Research Degree podcast by the University of Exeter, Doctoral College

2 00:00:23,550 --> 00:00:28,410 Hello and welcome to the latest episode of the Beyond Your Research Degree podcast.

3 00:00:28,410 --> 00:00:32,160 Now, we know that there's a lot of anxiety at the moment about what it means to secure

4 00:00:32,160 --> 00:00:37,560 a job and specifically a non-academic job during the COVID 19 pandemic.

5 00:00:37,560 --> 00:00:45,430 Everything has been turned upside down. The experiences we get, how we do our research and how we apply for jobs.

6 00:00:45,430 --> 00:00:51,000 So to answer that, we are talking to some of our researchers who have got new jobs during the

7 00:00:51,000 --> 00:00:56,250 COVID 19 pandemic and talk to them about how they found those roles.

8 00:00:56,250 --> 00:01:03,240 The process of applying and in some cases, what it's like to start a new job during a global pandemic.

9 00:01:03,240 --> 00:01:10,200 So without further ado, here's the first in our series of podcasts on Moving Beyond Your Research Degree and a global pandemic.

10 00:01:10,200 --> 00:01:14,820 Timur are you happy to introduce yourself? I sure am.

11 00:01:14,820 --> 00:01:25,710 My name's Timur Jack-Kadioglu I started my PhD with University of Exeter would have been February 2018

12 00:01:25,710 --> 00:01:29,730 I'm based with the European Centre for Environment and Human Health.

13 00:01:29,730 --> 00:01:32,080 Down in Cornwall.

14 00:01:32,080 --> 00:01:40,670 My PhD is working on a project called Blue Communities and it's a interdisciplinary programme that involves various departments.

15 00:01:40,670 --> 00:01:45,930 at Exeter While also working with other academic institutions in the UK,

16 00:01:45,930 --> 00:01:54,540 some NGOs and also academic partners in Southeast Asia, Indonesia, Malaysia, Philippines and Vietnam.

17 00:01:54,540 --> 00:01:59,060 I guess so I would identify as a Marine. Social scientists.

18 00:01:59,060 --> 00:02:05,100 My work is about the marine environment. But focussing on the social science aspects.

19 00:02:05,100 --> 00:02:12,290 And for my PhD. I spent time in the Philippines on the island of Palawan.

20 00:02:12,290 --> 00:02:19,610 My research was kind of looking at the relationships between livelihoods and governance.

21 00:02:19,610 --> 00:02:25,460 And especially looking at power relations and power dynamics and looking at trade offs and equity.

22 00:02:25,460 --> 00:02:33,710 Who the winners and losers are, so to speak, in terms of coastal development and conservation processes.

23 00:02:33,710 --> 00:02:41,360 Wow. Yeah. So what we're going to talk about today is actually securing a non-academic job,

24 00:02:41,360 --> 00:02:48,550 but particularly securing a non-academic job during the time of COVID 19.

25 00:02:48,550 --> 00:02:56,030 And the additional challenges that bring say. Could you tell us a little bit about the job you're going on to?

26 00:02:56,030 --> 00:03:02,380 Sure. So I started a job in November of twenty twenty.

27 00:03:02,380 --> 00:03:08,890 So I originally I still have have time in my PhD and I'm still writing up my PhD,

28 00:03:08,890 --> 00:03:14,020 but my new employer's allowed me to originally start part time for November and December.

29 00:03:14,020 --> 00:03:17,620 So I still had two days a week working on the PhD

30 00:03:17,620 --> 00:03:27,880 And I joined the Conservation, Livelihood's and Governance team of the UK based NGO, Fauna and Flora International.

31 00:03:27,880 --> 00:03:34,150 So they work with they have various regional teams in around the world.

32 00:03:34,150 --> 00:03:40,300 But their main model is working with small local partner organisations.

33 00:03:40,300 --> 00:03:40,630 And yeah,

34 00:03:40,630 --> 00:03:51,490 my my role with them is providing technical inputs on livelihoods and governance related aspects of conservation and natural resource management.

35 00:03:51,490 --> 00:03:56,160 And as I said, my my PhD is very much on that on that topic.

36 00:03:56,160 --> 00:04:00,850 And I happen to see the job ad posted on LinkedIn.

37 00:04:00,850 --> 00:04:04,780 I think it was in September. Yes.

38 00:04:04,780 --> 00:04:11,890 September time. And it is one of those things where ideally, if this job came up six months later, that would have been perfect.

39 00:04:11,890 --> 00:04:22,870 But it was almost it was too good an opportunity to miss, given the relevance to the relevance to what I did in my PhD

40 00:04:22,870 --> 00:04:31,390 So actually, the application process is quite I got invited to an interview when I was on the way up to Scotland for a camping trip.

41 00:04:31,390 --> 00:04:36,070 And they offered the interview on a day when I was supposed to be in the back end of nowhere.

42 00:04:36,070 --> 00:04:41,050 So there was some last minute rearranging of plans to be able to accommodate it.

43 00:04:41,050 --> 00:04:47,950 But, yeah, I'm really glad I did end up doing that because I ended up getting the job.

44 00:04:47,950 --> 00:04:54,970 I think I was interested to hear you say that you found the job on linked in.

45 00:04:54,970 --> 00:04:59,590 So was it an advert that the company had posted.

46 00:04:59,590 --> 00:05:03,670 Were you following the company because you were interested in? Like, how. How did you get to see it?

47 00:05:03,670 --> 00:05:11,590 Basically, yes. As I said, it's an organisation I've really quite admired for it for a while.

48 00:05:11,590 --> 00:05:18,990 So I was following them on LinkedIn. And I saw that the job, that they posted the job on there and.

49 00:05:18,990 --> 00:05:24,110 It. Yeah, it was kind of advertised. I mean, I almost scrolled right past it.

50 00:05:24,110 --> 00:05:27,640 I mean, it just it's kind of just it was the livelihood's in governance,

51 00:05:27,640 --> 00:05:33,570 but it kind of caught my eyes when I looked at it and I kind of ummed and ahhed about whether or not to apply for it.

52 00:05:33,570 --> 00:05:42,340 And like I said, the timing could have been a bit better as I'm still in I am still in the process of writing up my PhD

53 00:05:42,340 --> 00:05:46,270 But I think what really. Yeah.

54 00:05:46,270 --> 00:05:55,180 I think that what really went through my mind was needing to be just needing to be pragmatic with the difficult times that we're in.

55 00:05:55,180 --> 00:05:59,310 And especially on the I was coming towards the end of my PhD,

56 00:05:59,310 --> 00:06:11,230 this was starting to get a little bit concerned about the economic fallout of of the of the pandemic.

57 00:06:11,230 --> 00:06:14,840 And this this is a permanent contract. So.

58 00:06:14,840 --> 00:06:20,050 Well, I would probably let's be honest, I probably would have applied for anyway if it if it wasn't for the pandemic.

59 00:06:20,050 --> 00:06:22,810 But that just really. Yeah.

60 00:06:22,810 --> 00:06:32,230 It just really gave that that just happened, realising that I really needed to be pragmatic and make the most of what opportunities are available.

61 00:06:32,230 --> 00:06:40,060 Yeah. And I think that, you know, there's simple things of actually following organisations that you admire and that you have connections to.

62 00:06:40,060 --> 00:06:45,480 And it's a really simple thing that can actually kind of bring those opportunities into your awareness when,

63 00:06:45,480 --> 00:06:54,730 like you say, you might not be thinking about it. Timing wise, but actually the the role and the organisation is it's just the right fit.

64 00:06:54,730 --> 00:06:58,570 Did you have any conversation with them in advance of applying for the role?

65 00:06:58,570 --> 00:07:03,750 About the fact that you were still finishing up the PhD

66 00:07:03,750 --> 00:07:11,340 Yes. So we spoke a little bit about it in the interview, and then afterwards,

67 00:07:11,340 --> 00:07:17,610 basically I went when they identified me, as the candidate they wanted to go for.

68 00:07:17,610 --> 00:07:25,070 They got in touch. And just before offering it to me, they just wanted to speak a little bit more about.

69 00:07:25,070 --> 00:07:32,280 About starting the role while finishing my PhD So I'd kind of thought in advance of the interview and what sort of options?

70 00:07:32,280 --> 00:07:36,520 Because I knew that I just didn't want to start full time immediately.

71 00:07:36,520 --> 00:07:45,330 And so I had kind of loosely said about options like starting part time or delaying the start until the beginning of twenty, twenty one.

72 00:07:45,330 --> 00:07:50,970 And then when we had the call, when they wanted to offer me the job.

73 00:07:50,970 --> 00:07:56,970 Yeah. They, they were they were quite willing to be somewhat adaptable.

74 00:07:56,970 --> 00:08:02,970 But while also they basically is the first time they've been able to secure

75 00:08:02,970 --> 00:08:06,660 funding to hire a new person in that team for like seven or eight years.

76 00:08:06,660 --> 00:08:13,500 They were very keen to have someone start as soon as possible. But I was really glad that they were understanding of it.

77 00:08:13,500 --> 00:08:17,220 And some of the team, some of my team members have PhDs themselves.

78 00:08:17,220 --> 00:08:25,380 So they were really understanding of just what PhD means in terms of obviously from the career progression perspective,

79 00:08:25,380 --> 00:08:32,490 but also from a personal aspect. Personal perspective is a very personal experience.

80 00:08:32,490 --> 00:08:37,260 So, yeah, they were really understanding of that. And like since starting as well,

81 00:08:37,260 --> 00:08:47,420 they've been encouraging and showed an interest in it and are keen to see that as I complete my PhD and hopefully start publishing kind of seeing.

82 00:08:47,420 --> 00:08:56,300 Yeah. I encourage me to present it to people in the organisation as well as amongst some of their networks more broadly.

83 00:08:56,300 --> 00:09:01,520 That's brilliant. And it's it's fantastic that the organisation is so supportive of that.

84 00:09:01,520 --> 00:09:06,170 So I wonder if you could talk a little bit about the application process, actually.

85 00:09:06,170 --> 00:09:12,050 So you see the job on Linkedin. You almost, scroll past it, but then you don't.

86 00:09:12,050 --> 00:09:20,770 You decide to give it a closer look. What what did the application process involve exactly?

87 00:09:20,770 --> 00:09:28,240 So aside from my initial umming and ahhing about whether I should apply for it or not, once I did decide, yep, why am I even.

88 00:09:28,240 --> 00:09:34,650 Why am I even debating? Let me apply for it. The actual application process.

89 00:09:34,650 --> 00:09:40,810 So it's quite a typical one, sharing CV and a cover letter.

90 00:09:40,810 --> 00:09:44,540 And then once I think it was just those two then once

91 00:09:44,540 --> 00:09:49,020 I mean, they got in touch in advance of the interview.

92 00:09:49,020 --> 00:09:55,560 And to say that there would be an assignment that could be done, there would be done immediately after the interview.

93 00:09:55,560 --> 00:09:59,350 But they kind of kept the details of that. Yeah.

94 00:09:59,350 --> 00:10:04,120 They didn't really say anything about what it would be, just that it would take an hour.

95 00:10:04,120 --> 00:10:14,590 So I had to interview with three people. I thought I really appreciated what they what they did with the with having the video

96 00:10:14,590 --> 00:10:21,160 So the interview over a video call. They each were three interviewers.

97 00:10:21,160 --> 00:10:28,540 And when one person was speaking, the other two would turn off their cameras. And I thought that was a really, really quite a nice way at that time.

98 00:10:28,540 --> 00:10:37,870 And it really helped me to to relax with it can be quite intimidating if you've got three random people you know very well.

99 00:10:37,870 --> 00:10:44,240 I suppose that does happen when you're having a face to face one. But a video as is, I will at least find it that much more difficult.

100 00:10:44,240 --> 00:10:52,330 So I really appreciated that because it did feel more like you were just having a conversation with one person.

101 00:10:52,330 --> 00:11:03,270 Yeah. And afterwards, they then sent the assignment. So I had was given a set of data and also do various types of analysis in an hour.

102 00:11:03,270 --> 00:11:10,450 So quite technical. Yeah, fairly technical and definitely pushed me as a more of a qualitative social scientist.

103 00:11:10,450 --> 00:11:19,150 And it was quite quantitative. Clearly did enough of a did a decent enough of a job to convince them to offer me the rile

104 00:11:19,150 --> 00:11:26,320 Absolutely. Did you feel that there were things within the process or thinking about applying for a job with the

105 00:11:26,320 --> 00:11:33,290 things that you concerned about that you felt were made that were more difficult due to COVID?

106 00:11:33,290 --> 00:11:44,210 And how did you kind of counteract that? Yeah, I think definitely the the thing that was the main I guess my main concern,

107 00:11:44,210 --> 00:11:57,260 and I made sure as you both me and my new employers we had an open discussion about it and it was about where to be based and expectations around moving.

108 00:11:57,260 --> 00:12:00,370 So FFIs offices are in in Cambridge.

109 00:12:00,370 --> 00:12:08,570 And for a long time they've really had a very strong policy about having people based there that they have this they share a building

110 00:12:08,570 --> 00:12:16,100 with conservation students from Cambridge and a whole load of other environmental engineers is is a real strong point of working there.

111 00:12:16,100 --> 00:12:26,600 So I was a little bit concerned that they would still really strongly want me to move during the pandemic.

112 00:12:26,600 --> 00:12:35,990 But then they yeah, they made clear they basically they they asked if I would if I were to completely rule out ever moving to Cambridge.

113 00:12:35,990 --> 00:12:40,520 And they they wouldn't offer me the role as long as there was some sort of a

114 00:12:40,520 --> 00:12:45,560 willingness with everything's just still in such a constant state of flux.

115 00:12:45,560 --> 00:12:51,200 Not to completely rule it out, but then they also emphasised that there was no expectation of moving then it

116 00:12:51,200 --> 00:12:55,740 was kind of in the short term but of course now with additional lockdowns as well.

117 00:12:55,740 --> 00:13:04,900 That's very much in the medium term. So that was a big concern of mine because, yeah, it's difficult enough to move.

118 00:13:04,900 --> 00:13:15,850 Well, I have spent. I have lived in quite a few different countries and different places, I guess moving for me is something that is quite normal.

119 00:13:15,850 --> 00:13:26,530 But even despite how normal I find it, I was very reluctant to move in the middle of a pandemic, like even knowing people there in Cambridge already.

120 00:13:26,530 --> 00:13:33,720 Just just the thought of moving somewhere and trying to start putting down some roots and finding out what you like about the place.

121 00:13:33,720 --> 00:13:41,350 I just can't really imagine doing that during the pandemic. And also just the kind of safety and space that you have,

122 00:13:41,350 --> 00:13:50,130 the safety and comfort that you haven't been a living in a space both in terms of the flat, I mean, but also living in Truro just

123 00:13:50,130 --> 00:14:00,920 Yeah, that that was a big concern of mine. And so I was really glad that they were just very understanding in terms of like starting a job in COVID

124 00:14:00,920 --> 00:14:12,310 It is quite yeah. It's been quite challenging at times, kind of not having the I guess what I would call the water cooler,

125 00:14:12,310 --> 00:14:19,720 informal conversations that you have with with people in the office and especially when you're starting out.

126 00:14:19,720 --> 00:14:25,900 But I think I was quite fortunate that I had some relationship to the organisation already.

127 00:14:25,900 --> 00:14:31,780 I worked for a small like a local partner of theirs in Tanzania before starting my career.

128 00:14:31,780 --> 00:14:38,140 Yeah, I feel really fortunate to have had that existing connection.

129 00:14:38,140 --> 00:14:43,180 How are you finding doing the writing of the PhD alongside working.

130 00:14:43,180 --> 00:14:50,060 How's that working for you. Oh, the million dollar question. Yes I know.

131 00:14:50,060 --> 00:14:54,430 Honestly I've actually found it is actually had I.

132 00:14:54,430 --> 00:15:01,720 Don't get me wrong, it is quite full on but it's actually had a very positive effect.

133 00:15:01,720 --> 00:15:07,180 2020 was it was a pretty tough year for me.

134 00:15:07,180 --> 00:15:14,050 Basically when the pandemic was declared, I was still in the Philippines after pretty intense long term fieldwork.

135 00:15:14,050 --> 00:15:21,820 And then no, I was essentially extracted as the pandemic was declared and lockdown's are being put down.

136 00:15:21,820 --> 00:15:26,470 I got back immediate. I came back to the UK and was basically straight into lockdown.

137 00:15:26,470 --> 00:15:31,510 So it was a pretty tough experience then processing.

138 00:15:31,510 --> 00:15:39,100 But like analytically processing my data, but emotionally and the whole experience and actually I,

139 00:15:39,100 --> 00:15:45,370 I feel like after getting the job, it it kind of took a it took quite a lot of weight off.

140 00:15:45,370 --> 00:15:50,980 Yeah. It felt like a weight was lifted and that but my whole relationship with my PhD changed quite a bit.

141 00:15:50,980 --> 00:15:59,080 It was no longer so kind of like tied up it and.

142 00:15:59,080 --> 00:16:03,040 Yeah, like it just started to get a bit of perspective on on on the PhD

143 00:16:03,040 --> 00:16:16,450 And being able to kind of separate it out for myself a bit. And I think also having that urgency in that pressure that still felt somewhat manageable.

144 00:16:16,450 --> 00:16:22,830 I think it helps with being less of a perfectionist and trying to really get everything perfect.

145 00:16:22,830 --> 00:16:29,500 As I remember, seeing a quote like a PhD is never done is just simply handed in at the least damaging time.

146 00:16:29,500 --> 00:16:33,790 And I feel like starting the job. Yeah. It really helped to that.

147 00:16:33,790 --> 00:16:42,320 And I think in terms of productivity. Yeah, I'm just chipping away at it when I can.

148 00:16:42,320 --> 00:16:48,770 Most mornings, not all mornings, and I'm trying to just be flexible and mostly just kind myself.

149 00:16:48,770 --> 00:16:54,440 If I have energy and I feel up for it, then I'll try and do like an hour or so reading in the morning.

150 00:16:54,440 --> 00:17:04,040 As if writing and in the mornings during the work week, occasionally working on weekends or the past few weeks since this new lockdown.

151 00:17:04,040 --> 00:17:12,310 I've been trying not to do that. So, yeah, it's I think for me it.

152 00:17:12,310 --> 00:17:15,510 November and December, when I still had those two days a week on the PhD,

153 00:17:15,510 --> 00:17:23,600 there were some of the most productive times I have felt like I kind of had the breakthrough in and theoretic,

154 00:17:23,600 --> 00:17:28,300 like drawing together my my data and theoretical frameworks.

155 00:17:28,300 --> 00:17:35,020 And yeah, I find it really fascinating, like beyond just the whole, like,

156 00:17:35,020 --> 00:17:39,030 productivity aspect of the PhD and getting closer to finishing my PhD

157 00:17:39,030 --> 00:17:47,260 I find it really interesting from a psychological perspective of time and pressure and expectation and everything.

158 00:17:47,260 --> 00:17:53,410 Because how did that kind of compare in terms of when you were when you're working on writing up the PhD

159 00:17:53,410 --> 00:18:01,870 And you weren't working as well, did you? Did you find, like you said, you make a lot breakthroughs, but did you find it easier to kind of, I guess,

160 00:18:01,870 --> 00:18:06,700 structure your time or motivate yourself once you got the once you've got the job

161 00:18:06,700 --> 00:18:13,770 than you did when you were just trying to kind of write it during the pandemic?

162 00:18:13,770 --> 00:18:24,990 I think I think it kind of it would vary quite a bit, depending on like basically the stage of of the pandemic and definitely there were some periods,

163 00:18:24,990 --> 00:18:33,990 especially when I had first come back, I get there was some periods of like being really, really unproductive.

164 00:18:33,990 --> 00:18:41,100 But generally I tried as much as possible to keep Monday to Friday, nine to five,

165 00:18:41,100 --> 00:18:51,600 or sometimes ten to four and I will have was mostly able to keep that up while still full time month on the PhD.

166 00:18:51,600 --> 00:19:03,600 But but yeah, I think it just. I can't really put my finger on it, it was almost like a switch was kind of flicked in terms of just.

167 00:19:03,600 --> 00:19:11,820 Yeah, just in terms of realising that, OK, I have this amount of time, I have this many work days, two days, work days a week for the next two months.

168 00:19:11,820 --> 00:19:18,240 So two days on the PhD or the next two months, I really need to just get words on paper.

169 00:19:18,240 --> 00:19:22,040 Felt like the edge. Getting words on paper became a lot easier.

170 00:19:22,040 --> 00:19:27,720 But then a big part of that is also to do with a breakthrough that had around that time.

171 00:19:27,720 --> 00:19:32,010 And that was kind of more to do with reading a new paper that just really clicked.

172 00:19:32,010 --> 00:19:38,420 So I think is very a combination of having that moment of data just coming together.

173 00:19:38,420 --> 00:19:44,400 But then also having that limited, limited amount of time, a limited amount of days.

174 00:19:44,400 --> 00:19:53,590 Yeah, I experienced something similar when I did my Masters by research that actually the kind of the condensed amount of time actually helped me,

175 00:19:53,590 --> 00:19:58,300 helped me focus and helped me. Keep motivated.

176 00:19:58,300 --> 00:20:05,100 Also gave me kind of head space in between when I was doing other things to kind of, you know, little cogs to turn and things to click into me.

177 00:20:05,100 --> 00:20:13,330 Guess is something that I also remember from when I did my Masters as well.

178 00:20:13,330 --> 00:20:17,770 My partner and I, we both had part time jobs while we're doing the Masters.

179 00:20:17,770 --> 00:20:22,480 And remember the whole thesis process when we spoke about this,

180 00:20:22,480 --> 00:20:32,080 we were on the same master's programme when we spoke about our experience of writing a thesis with friends who had just only had it to focus on.

181 00:20:32,080 --> 00:20:36,370 I think I was actually ended up quite a lot. Wasn't easy.

182 00:20:36,370 --> 00:20:43,750 Thesis is never easy, but it always ended up a little a little bit easier because we kind of did have that.

183 00:20:43,750 --> 00:20:46,330 A few days a week when working in retail.

184 00:20:46,330 --> 00:20:52,870 And it was something you would really focus on and be quite present in that and be able to kind of just drop away,

185 00:20:52,870 --> 00:20:59,800 at least consciously, not be thinking about about the thesis and then being able to compartmentalise your time, be like, okay.

186 00:20:59,800 --> 00:21:06,200 Now I have this. Now I've got my work shift in the morning. I've then got this afternoon where I need to be productive.

187 00:21:06,200 --> 00:21:12,880 I'll go to the library and do that. So I think, yeah, I understand it doesn't work for may not work for everyone,

188 00:21:12,880 --> 00:21:18,550 but I've definitely found that having something else to kind of give structure,

189 00:21:18,550 --> 00:21:29,650 to give structure, but also it's to give to something else where you can say find it certainly unconsciously and also consciously the PhD

190 00:21:29,650 --> 00:21:32,560 And we'll still pop into my mind when I'm doing other things.

191 00:21:32,560 --> 00:21:41,890 But kind of having that separation and being able to do something that isn't the PhD basically. the question I often

192 00:21:41,890 --> 00:21:49,270 ask people is kind of at what point did you decide that you didn't want to continue on doing research in academia?

193 00:21:49,270 --> 00:21:57,970 Was that never even a consideration for you? This is the billion dollar question now.

194 00:21:57,970 --> 00:22:07,230 Down at. So I I feel like I kind of straddle the.

195 00:22:07,230 --> 00:22:18,190 I do want to call it a divide, straddle the kind of one foot being a bike practitioner, one foot being a researcher.

196 00:22:18,190 --> 00:22:23,940 And so I was working for an NGO before my PhD and that kind of thing.

197 00:22:23,940 --> 00:22:30,150 A bit frustrated about that. And just felt like I wanted to continue my my academic education.

198 00:22:30,150 --> 00:22:34,710 I think it was a case of just do a really interesting PhD

199 00:22:34,710 --> 00:22:39,810 The opportunity came up through the work. I was I was doing that.

200 00:22:39,810 --> 00:22:45,510 That's how I met one of my PhD supervisors. And it was just such an exciting project.

201 00:22:45,510 --> 00:22:51,390 It was really. Yes. It was more the kids.

202 00:22:51,390 --> 00:22:58,030 I wasn't actively looking for PhD at all. At that point, I kind of considered that it might be something I do.

203 00:22:58,030 --> 00:23:03,280 And something really interesting came up. So I decided to pursue it.

204 00:23:03,280 --> 00:23:13,860 I think probably, I'll be honest with you, probably not long after I started, appears the I was fairly sure I didn't want to stay in academia.

205 00:23:13,860 --> 00:23:18,900 I definitely wanted to stick with the PhD and I'm glad I have stuck with it.

206 00:23:18,900 --> 00:23:26,180 Of course, there are times where you feel I felt like I was on the brink of giving up.

207 00:23:26,180 --> 00:23:29,080 But I wouldn't say I was ever 100 percent certain.

208 00:23:29,080 --> 00:23:38,040 I didn't want to stay in academia, I think, again, it would be like if it was something that really interested me or is really,

209 00:23:38,040 --> 00:23:40,330 really well aligned with my interests and my values.

210 00:23:40,330 --> 00:23:49,980 And I probably would have gone for it, but I don't think I would have looked for post-doc for the sake of doing one if if that makes sense.

211 00:23:49,980 --> 00:23:54,240 Not not that that's there's anything wrong with that. Yeah.

212 00:23:54,240 --> 00:23:59,010 I just never really was never set on a career in academia.

213 00:23:59,010 --> 00:24:04,590 But I definitely feel like compared with where I was at the beginning of the PhD

214 00:24:04,590 --> 00:24:08,940 And I do think that the PhD is the experience,

215 00:24:08,940 --> 00:24:15,600 the research experience working on a big collaborative project is it's really I've definitely grown

216 00:24:15,600 --> 00:24:22,830 a lot and a lot of what I'm doing in my current role is a technical input on social monitoring,

217 00:24:22,830 --> 00:24:25,290 evaluation and in social research.

218 00:24:25,290 --> 00:24:34,050 So there is a very strong research element to it that I feel like I probably wasn't strong enough on before doing the PhD

219 00:24:34,050 --> 00:24:39,180 So I think that this new role that I'm in is in what if if I call a crosscutting,

220 00:24:39,180 --> 00:24:44,250 teams are kind of supporting different teams with this technical input is it's kind of like

221 00:24:44,250 --> 00:24:50,620 the perfect next step in kind of balancing being both a practitioner and a researcher.

222 00:24:50,620 --> 00:24:53,370 So being. Yeah.

223 00:24:53,370 --> 00:25:07,740 Very applied and pragmatic and focussed on the ground sort of work, but then really guided by cutting edge research and theoretical frameworks.

224 00:25:07,740 --> 00:25:13,620 Yes, it's. It really does sound like the ideal combination. Yeah.

225 00:25:13,620 --> 00:25:17,280 I still sometimes kind of pinch myself that I've been able to get the job.

226 00:25:17,280 --> 00:25:23,910 And I like I say, I do feel very, very fortunate, you know, knowing other people who are applying for jobs right now.

227 00:25:23,910 --> 00:25:26,010 And it is just a very difficult market.

228 00:25:26,010 --> 00:25:34,780 So I feel very fortunate that something that really does draw together the research and practise side of things.

229 00:25:34,780 --> 00:25:39,240 Yeah, I feel very fortunate to have been able to to secure this role.

230 00:25:39,240 --> 00:25:47,010 Thank you so much to Timur for giving us an insight into working for an NGO.

231 00:25:47,010 --> 00:25:52,500 And the real tangible benefits that can bring to being a researcher in that practical

232 00:25:52,500 --> 00:26:00,660 applied context to balancing a part time job and career alongside finishing up the PhD.

233 00:26:00,660 --> 00:26:08,910 And, of course, what it's like to go through the process of all of this during the COVID 19 pandemic.

234 00:26:08,910 --> 00:26:24,637 And that's it for this episode. Join us next time when we'll be talking to another researcher about that career beyond their research degree.