This week, Shamash and Calvin venture into the inmost cave and do battle with hopelessness in the long dark night of the soul.

Luckily as ever, they have help in their Hero's Journey through mindfulness. In this episode:

• Therapist Mari Williams shares how she counselled herself through a difficult time in her life, by remembering that healing takes time.
• We hear from social entrepreneur Kush Kanodia who recounts his own painful experience, and how being thrown into chaos helped him discover his purpose.
• Dr Wendy Molefi talks philosophically about the passage of pain, but also uses the Buddhist idea of the second arrow to describe sitting with that pain.
• Dr Steven Hayes, originator of ACT, shares a story with Shamash about a meeting with a professor and the setting of an impossible task.

Next week, we explore our gifts and uncover the power of grit.

Mindful Conversations is hosted by mindfulness teacher Shamash Alidina and mindful storyteller Calvin Niles.

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