Little is known about who invented the EncroChat network and who owned it. Even the police who investigated the criminals using the network, know little about who’s behind it.

Journalists David James Smith and Joseph Cox explain what their investigations into the company reveal.

Plus, why an expert in cryptography thinks the whole EncroChat operation could fall apart on a legal technicality.

Presenter: Mobeen Azhar Series Producer: Andrew Hosken Editor and Executive Producer: Innes Bowen Catching the Kingpins is a BBC Studios Production for BBC Sounds.