The Unforgettable Learning Podcast

This episode flips the script as Josh Cardoz, Chief Creative and Learning Officer at Sponge, joins the podcast to discuss the influences L&D can take from other worlds, in a conversation informed by Kate’s experience at the SXSW tech conference. Drawing on new experiences from XR, open world games, and AI, this conversation sees Josh and Kate explore how these influences can be applied to inspire and refresh the work of L&D.   Exploring the power of spatial storytelling and tools like Quill and Tilt Brush that enable new forms of expression, this discussion delves into the rise of the "transition generation" grappling with the shifts brought about by AI's convergence with multiple technologies – and the impact this is having on the workplace. Josh and Kate dig into questions around the future of talent and the value of human work in a world undergoing ever more rapid technological advancement.  Ultimately, Josh and Kate highlight the need for embracing creation over consumption, enabling autonomy and collaboration, and finding inspiration from unexpected places to craft learning experiences that captivate the modern workforce.   For those looking to push the boundaries of what’s possible in creative learning design, this episode provides a unique view into how emerging tools and platforms can be used to craft immersive, engaging experiences that stick with learners. By looking outside of traditional L&D boundaries to virtual worlds, games, and frontier technologies, this conversation illuminates paths toward humanising learning experiences in an increasingly digital era - and calls for L&D to be boldly creative and human-centered in designing solutions that empower modern learners.

JD Dillon brings over 20 years of experience enabling frontline workforces, from his start as a Disney cast member to roles in L&D and authoring “The Modern Learning Ecosystem”. In this wide-ranging discussion, JD shares insights on what sparked his passion for frontline training - tracing it back to the excellent onboarding he received at his first job. He discusses the pivotal role of frontline employees in executing daily operations, highlighting the opportunity for learning innovations to better support these frontline "heavy lifters".  JD explores an overlooked burnout crisis brewing among frontline managers. He advocates innovative strategies to make these critical roles more sustainable long-term, including rethinking expectations, metrics, and development models. While corporate skills strategies can lack rigour in taxonomy and measurement, JD suggests the well-defined skills pathways common to frontline learning could inform strategies to improve development across broader employee groups.  Drawing on concepts from his recent book, JD explains his framework for implementing disruption-ready learning ecosystems. From shared knowledge flows to performance support and reinforcement, he offers tangible examples to activate knowledge sharing across organisations. JD also prompts learning leaders to brace for AI disruption across operations - forecasting adoption timelines and inevitable workforce impacts. He recommends reskilling programs should prepare employees for how their roles will be enhanced by AI, rather than only teaching them to carry out their current duties. The focus should be on developing new capabilities that will be useful alongside AI systems.  Throughout the discussion, JD blends strategic perspectives with tactical recommendations grounded in real frontline needs. Tune in for visionary insights from a leader dedicated to creating human-centered workforce experiences.

As CEO of The Learning Guild, David Kelly offers an unmatched perspective on the current state of play in L&D. He is committed to advancing the industry, running large-scale events like Learning 2023 and DevLearn, and keeping a sharp eye on the emerging themes that will define L&D in 2024.      In this episode, David discusses the value of building community in L&D and the rapid adoption of AI and other emerging tech by L&D teams, while noting the slower progress in getting a strategic seat at the executive table. As DevLearn prepares for its 20th anniversary, David reflects on key milestones and predicts more integration between formal learning and workplace experience powered by new technologies. Throughout the episode, his expertise offers insider perspective on L&D's evolution and priorities like developing capabilities in AI implementation to stay ahead of rapid change.  Critically, David emphasises how AI will change the way organisations work, creating new expectations for the skills and curiosities L&D need to stay at the top of the game. Ultimately, he poses a provocative question – what will L&D teams do with the time gained from tech-enabled efficiencies?

Struggling to get employees to actually apply skills learned in training? You’re not alone. So how can learning leaders finally start changing behaviours for good?  In this episode, learning royalty, Julie Dirksen - author, international speaker and facilitator for organisations like the Association for Talent Development and the Learning Guild - explores just this. Sharing insights from her new book, ‘Talk to the Elephant: Design Learning for Behaviour Change,’ Julie eloquently breaks down the metaphor of the "Rider and the Elephant," discussing how our logical and emotional selves are often at odds in decision making. Julie relates this metaphor to human motivations and the barriers to meaningful behaviour change, capturing how our logical and emotional selves are often misaligned - with training only speaking to the logical side. Talking to the elephant, it turns out, may just be the way to bridge that knowledge-doing gap.  The conversation overflows with Julie's wit, wisdom, and empathy, as she explores behavior change models, precisely defining actions, and predicting persisting needs for human-centric learning design amidst our tech evolution.

In a world of tight budgets and an incredible rate of change, how can L&D leaders take a long-term view of progress? With the best part of two decades of learning design experience, Beth Chudley and Tom Griffiths, Learning Experience Consultants at Sponge, are well versed in supporting global organisations to achieve their lofty learning dreams. They have worked with some of the biggest brands on the planet, earning plenty of knowledge to share when it comes to implementing lasting learning strategies.  Beth and Tom address common issues cited by L&D teams and how a strategic view earlier on leads to longer term success. They discuss the nebulous nature of learning cultures and how, sometimes, innovating means being creative with a stripped back solution rather than wheeling out the latest gadget or gizmo to do the work for you.  Providing us with a peek into the world of learning consultancy, Beth and Tom share the ins and outs of learning design for lasting impact, from early learning needs analysis to how resilient partnerships can allow innovative approaches to flourish. They remind us that learning is always ultimately about helping human beings to thrive, and show how getting a learning partnership online early leads to greater return on investment, more trust, and learning solutions that stay with learners and businesses for the long-term.

David Ward, Regulatory, Ethics and Compliance Director at Tesco, has won awards for compliance training and been a keynote speaker at compliance conferences across Europe in a bid to shift perceptions about what's possible in compliance. A true maverick, listening to David just might change the way you think about mandatory learning forever.  So often the cause of universal groans from employees, compliance learning being relegated to a tick box exercise  to appease regulators is a common problem. Nothing could be further from David’s mindset on the subject, however. He’s brought ambition, innovation, and robust behavioural insights to solve global training rollouts for over a decade.     In this interview he talks openly about his approaches to delivering learning campaigns that create a buzz and engage managers and employees – as well as his methods for encouraging, rather than mandating, completion on time despite operating in a demanding retail environment.    Tune in as David discusses:   - In-the-flow compliance learning through clever microlearning design.  - How insights from social proof psychology led to innovations in his programmes.   - How taking a bold stance against drab elearning transformed his campaigns into engaging experiences that avoid the trap of legal language.  - Where he's heading next with personalisation and AI.

Known as the L&D Detective, Kevin Yates has dedicated himself to finding the facts, clues, evidence, and data to demonstrate the impact of learning in organisations. But, in this episode, he acknowledges this isn’t easy. It’s a challenge, in part because we need a mindset shift away from prioritising traditional metrics like attendance, utilisation, participation, and consumption, in favour of looking at organisational KPIs, to demonstrate impact. Across industries, all companies are trying to achieve something - whether that’s increasing sales, decreasing cycle time, improving customer service, optimising product quality, maintaining customer service scores, or reducing errors. Critically, L&D can’t do this alone: it takes a team to win and collaboration with other areas of the business to find success. Kevin also advocates for intentionality and specificity when designing learning programmes to make gains. This candid, focused, and optimistic episode will guide and enthuse anyone tackling measurement in L&D and should be on the ‘must watch’ list for anyone just getting started.

Ever sat down to use something and felt that it has been designed without any thought of the user? Enter Dr Patricia Moore; godmother of universal design, ready to ensure that products are created with the consumer in mind.  One of the most notable American industrial designers in the history of the field, Pattie’s decades long career has changed the shape of design – often in ways that the modern consumer takes for granted. In this episode, Pattie shares her experiences of undertaking a unique, 3 year long, experiment in living as an 85-year-old at the age of 26, and how this informed her trailblazing approach to universal design.  L&D professionals can learn a lot from Pattie, particularly about being considerate, creative, and curious when designing learning.  She reminds us that it’s vital to consider the user when creating learning, that it’s important to be inclusive when designing products, and that, often, getting our hands dirty really is the best way to make something great.

Are you setting out to solve the right problem with your learning design? For Ashley Thomas, this is the question we need to be asking ourselves when we find ourselves in the weeds and design gets messy.  On the road to her current role as L&D Programme Manager at Google, Ashley has seen every facet of the worlds of education and L&D. Through studying a Master’s in Higher Education Administration and a decade of experience in designing and managing L&D programmes, she has gained an appreciation for the imperfect nature of the design process, and the implications that has for creating learning.  Ashley provides us with a look under the hood of L&D programme management and design at Google with fascinating insights that demonstrate her candour in sharing her own personal strategies as much as her experience in L&D. Reminding us that the people designing learning are as human as the learners themselves, Ashley articulates the importance of remembering that thinking outside of the box, trying new things, and being kind to ourselves are cornerstones of working in design just as much as our personal lives.

If there’s one thing Ceri Jones knows, it’s what doesn’t work in training.   Throughout her career in cyber security, working alongside several psychologists, she’s discovered that telling people what to do is anything but simple. Behaviour doesn’t always follow knowledge, and nudges in the flow of work can be detrimental to productivity.    It’s a deeply thoughtful and people-first perspective, and Ceri explains why expecting people ‘to just do’ the rules is a flawed approach that ignores the person, their environment, their emotions, habits, and mindset - which all play a role in the actions we actually take.   Ceri is a realist, and advocates treating learners as adults, learning to listen, using positive messaging and not being afraid to challenge norms: all principles that we can explore and benefit from as learning leaders across any discipline - cybersecurity, or otherwise.

Throughout a winding career path in training, Stacey Long-Genovese has found the common theme has been empowering people. At Snap Inc, where she’s Global Head of Education, Learning and Training, her mission is to build a world with more AR developers – and she’s pioneering the use of immersive tech to do it.  Stacey shares with us her passion for the possibilities that experiential and immersive learning solutions can bring us, asking us to imagine learning about astronomy where the stars fill the room, or geometry where we pull the corners of triangles to visually experience concepts that were once on paper.  This is what AR allows us to do and – for those who can navigate its unique combination of design, storytelling, computer science… and the rest – it’s opening up entirely new ways to learn at work.

*SPOILERS* The Unforgettable Learning Podcast launches on 7th June! Here's a taste of what's coming in episode one with Stacey Long-Genovese, Global Head of Education, Learning, and Training at Snap Inc.