This episode is the second of three conversations Dean Jordan recorded while on a recent visit to The Ohio State University: it features Dr. Jennifer Frey of the University of South Carolina on the links between happiness, virtue, and wisdom; her own religious conversion and the experience of being a woman and a Catholic in an academic field dominated by atheists and men; and the value of a liberal arts education. For more about Dr. Frey’s writing and professional activities, see her faculty webpage at https://sc.edu/study/colleges_schools/artsandsciences/philosophy/our_people/directory/frey_jennifer.php. Her Sacred & Profane Love podcast can be found at https://sacredandprofanelove.com/, and the essay mentioned in this interview (“The Universe and the University”) is available at https://thepointmag.com/examined-life/the-universe-and-the-university/.